seabhac

Dec 14, 2009 ⭐ View statistics (Premium feature)

The Island of Saints and Scholars?

Frocked ManSpawn of the devilMouthing the LordsPurported words Power absoluteDecreedSuffer little childrenWho come unto theeIn innocence and bewilderment A ritual eye for eyeShould strip you nakedFor the world to see your shameOffense serpent severed fromYour servicingMay you never rest in peace Oh men

— seabhac, Dec 14, 2009

About This Poem

About the Author

Country/Region: GBR

Critiques

seabhac

16 years 5 months ago

Thank you Kal

Yes restrained, a deep sense of disgust, shame of my peoples ignorance. Your comment has presented for me a lesson in awareness on a worldly level. I had forgotten my voice was in the context I could view... Me looking out of a window, on planet Neo with all the deep-rooted personal understanding of this situation behind me and looking out to the world of readers looking into that window and only seeing the words that faced them. The video link? very emotive , very personal to me and thank you for being brave enough to allow the reader peer more effectly into the window of my writing, my pain being shared is lessoned. Awareness shared, more powerful. Forgiveness? Now that is a volume of poems in the writing. Answers on a postcard...

Seren

16 years 5 months ago

Dear Liz

Brilliantly strong write ... I can see nothing to correct ... Brava love and hugs Jayne

seabhac

16 years 5 months ago

Thanks Jayne

I know you living as far away from me as you do doesn't change the fact that you have an understanding of this issue...your connections here have fed you knowledge. Seabhac

Seren

16 years 5 months ago

To be honest hun I know too

To be honest hun I know too much on this subject, here in australia there have been a few really bad scandals ... there is one in particular that went on for over 30yrs ... and it was a shocking horror story of a boys catholic home and the abuse and torture those boys went through was horrific and in my opinion when the accused went to trial they were not given their just deserts ... I am catholic and am horrified that anything that they did was to be seen as done in the eyes of the church ... unfortunatlely its something that pervades a lot of religions not just catholics though these days its more widely reported ... I dont always say a lot but its there in my head ... the horrors done in gods name ... love and hugs Jayne P.S I have a deep respect for anyone that can write on such topics ... to be honest I dont know that I have the confidence to tackle such a topic without loosing myself in the write and end up with a bunch of rubbish ... I leave that to the warriors with the voice that rings out across worlds such as yours does P.S will find the newspaper link to the scandal I speak of and you can see what I mean

seabhac

16 years 5 months ago

The power of Neo

A wonderful way to be at one with the whole world...still blows my mind to think of discussing this local 'gossip' on a serious level end to end in the world...isn't life amazing!!!! Bravery? please never question yours You have not just overcome much but come out shiney and beautifully from a very muddy wash....Snowing here and freezeing my butt off...bet you are basking in the heat...strange juxtaposition.. Cooling hugs Seabhac

Kailashana

16 years 5 months ago

You are, my dear, a warrior

You are, my dear, a warrior poet. We defend. We attack. ~A p.s. Great title! Don’t let your victories go to your head, or your failures go to your heart.

seabhac

16 years 5 months ago

A gentle heart defends

A warrior does not need to go to war to win a fight but in this I fear there are only losers. I am gentle of heart but will always fight for that which I feel is right. Sword in hand ready to defend the wronged but vengeance is not mine to meter out. Thanks you for your thoughts on the title. In my head the words were spoken with distain. Seabhac

bjp

16 years 5 months ago

Dear Elizabeth,

Well, we know for sure the protagonist is angry. As a poem, well.... Is it cathartic? I do hope so. Brian

seabhac

16 years 5 months ago

Hi Brian

As the protagonist are you referring to the video clip? As a poetic purgative I hope it has raised even the awareness of those who have taken the time to comment here. I can ask for no more Seabhac

bjp

16 years 5 months ago

Dear Elizabeth,

Initially, I didn't know what vidio clip your were referring to. But then I saw it in the first comment and Olya and I watched about 45 minutes of various videos. It was all news to us. We really don't get TV here in any quantity: usually only 2 fuzy TV stations. Not that religious residential schools are expected to be gentle places. Canadians, particularly aboriginal Canadians, have their own very similar experiences. I am trying to find a way to comment on the limitations of the poem without infringing upon the emotions of the topic - probably an impossible task. I think old testiment style was what got a lot of people hurt in these institutions in the first place. But aside from the topic, this poem needs more effort. Or it will not have staying power, no matter what the topic. I understand the anger. And am not really that keen to wave the matadors red flag in its face. But emote is not the same as poet, and I like the latter better, particularly for you. Brian

seabhac

16 years 5 months ago

Hi Brian

On Neo my purpose is to improve my poetry and understanding of poetry in general. I use poetry to express my personal emotions to situations that affect my personal life. I do not choose to emote or incite any action on any reader but by being a reader of poetry that is a given. I have not ticked the box that said this poem is sensitive to me, I , as I always do wish for the raw truth. I have much to learn from the comments of others and the intimation you have given is that poetically there is more needed here. Topic and subject aside could you please give your opinion on content. Seabhac

bjp

16 years 5 months ago

Dear Elizabeth,

The poem ends, "oh men". Given that the Irish residential school abuses involved nuns too, that ending puts a gender emphasis on an otherwise more tawdry state of affairs. Terrible events provide a kind of pure food for our predudices. 9/11 became the excuse to invade Iraq because, well, because of the purity of the US indignation. Why shouldn't they have accepted flacid reasons to arrange the killing of a few hundred thousand people - the anger and fear and hurt were all just so pure? And, I mean, if you've got the weapons? Of course, many of Iraq's children were slated to die. And that sure helps the Arab indignation. Purity. Of course, the purity of rage is most known by the persons abused. And it becomes a justification there too. A goodly number of the children probably acted out their rage on each other (that is what happens) and grew up to act it out on another generation of children. But if we are going to go in this direction - if that is the poem you wish to write - then at least remove the clichés. The eye for an eye stuff. How about a buggering for a bugger? I leave to you figure out an apparently original angle for the nuns and the abuse of children by children. Other clichés: Spawn of the devil/ Mouthing the... words/ Power absolute/ Suffer little children/ Who come unto thee/ strip you naked/ For the world to see your shame/ May you never rest in peace. I think you have used the purity of rage as a cover for your own personal angers without really naming those angers or taking any responsibility. Brian

Kailashana

16 years 5 months ago

Dear Lady Seabhac, it is no

Dear Lady Seabhac, it is no different here in the States. I promise I'll listen to the proceedings in its entirety. However, this seems to have been an incredible lengthy system of cover-up, lies, politics... From my recollection, in America, the boys, now are in their 20's or 30's seldom senior citizens. I think what makes me even more angry is that there are always parents who decide to take money and remain silent, citing medical expenses. One would think that there would be a desire to make sure not another child suffers this brutality.. this betrayal. Additionally, how could a mother not know her husband is sleeping with her own child? A lot of wrong in this world, much of it in the name of God, much of it in denial. Thank you. I am not ashamed to be a warrior. No blood needs to be drawn or bullets expended or sides to be taken. Just allowing the truth to be heard and speaking for those who can not speak. The title as you mention, written with disdain, is appropriate. I wonder how many of the clergy have also been victims of abuse? A priest in the family is a status symbol as I understand it in speaking with folks from Irish backgrounds. Peace, Anna Don’t let your victories go to your head, or your failures go to your heart.

seabhac

16 years 5 months ago

Anna, writing these personal comments

Was a great affirmation of the power of the written word taken and internalised and personalised to the reader. My emotion is a fulcrum for the thought process within... nothing more ... nothing less Thank you for the time taken, of all the gifts we give ,time is the most precious. Seabhac

Kailashana

16 years 5 months ago

Action, however, is the

Action, however, is the expenditure of thought and emotion. Time is rarely on our side. ~A Don’t let your victories go to your head, or your failures go to your heart.

Kailashana

16 years 5 months ago

There are billions of

There are billions of excuses and millions of reasons for doing the wrong thing, the thing that is against one's own religious dogma, one's own child. Sometimes I just get tired of listening to excuses, Kal. Period. Seabhac, I sent that link to an Irish friend, an former monk who left the order only two weeks away from ordination. I'll quote him here: "Now that you've sent this, I do recall this ugliness, this horror. Yet, I'd no idea... I'd no idea. It tears my heart in two, it breaks the back of my soul and it fulls me full of inarticulatable anger, that the church that I love has two faces, one of them precisely like the face of the world of evil against which it preaches. In the coming century, I think it might be a good idea, for the Catholic church to show us, by living a life commensurate with the teachings of He Who founded the church, all the things that God is, since, in the past century, we've had quite enough of being shown what God is not. May God have mercy on them all." I wonder, however, who the church is, if not all its members. Mark and I have had many conversations on its god-awful history. ~A Don’t let your victories go to your head, or your failures go to your heart.

seabhac

16 years 5 months ago

Excuses are not what is needed-understanding is.

Anna I too know many good priests and particularly nuns, I have been thinking much over how their kindness shaped my future that I have arrived at. I had wished to write of that kindness for some time and have realised that the time is now. Thank you for reminding me of that. It is not God I have a problem with, it is mans handling of him/her/it. There is no darkness just less light Thank you for shedding more light here by your interaction. Seabhac

themoonman

16 years 5 months ago

Seabhac...

I've spent some time researching this morning this terrible topic. Your poem, is good and tells a huge part of the situation, but I tend to agree with Brian as far as it could be added to, to include the perhaps thousands of times cases were reported and swept to the side by the Nuns, and Bishops and even parents that were paid to keep quiet. The Nuns definitely had a major role in the beatings, and the abuse was delivered to both boys and girls, in the reports I read it was the boys that were raped, but I'm sure the girls were too. It is beyond me how people like this can be let off with a mere apology, and just moved to another town or church. It is in fact a worldwide problem within the Catholic Church, google it, it has been happening almost anywhere there is a Catholic Church, the reports are numerous and have been for years, almost as if abuse of children is an accepted practice kept silent for all these years. I am glad it came to light in Ireland, children should never have to suffer such atrocities. thank you for posting this poem as it has made me more aware Richard

seabhac

16 years 5 months ago

Richard thank you for taking the time on this one.

Hi Richard, I have been taken aback a little at the response to this one. It seems to have offended and inspired Maybe I should explain the context of its writing and see if you feel a different sense of understanding of where and why I wrote it as I have. It was a response to the video link I was given by an old friend whom had lived as I did in the home town of this residential school for 'bad boys'. I hung about with many of these boys for the years of my childhood and knew the place and set up very well indeed. It was a specific response to this one mans plight ...i never intended to take on the world just express how I felt...to say the poem should have gone further and included the nuns and other depravities makes it your poem ...not mine... The clichés are intentional...oh so intentional, as that is how I see the image of the Holy Catholic Church... TO ME...a cliché of organised religion. The positive aspect of course is that it has raised awareness and I thank you for taking the time to research the situation to relate better to the content of my outburst. Seabhac

themoonman

16 years 5 months ago

Liz...

The content of your poem elicits explosive emotion from almost anyone that reads, none of us want to think of children being abused or mistreated, I thank you again for posting this courageous poem. The point I made wasn't meant for you to feel it should include any of the ideas made, in fact, I said "could", there is a big difference. Even in the small community of one school where abuse like this is performed, for the years involved, would require enablers to the systematic abuse of even one child, that was the point I was trying to make. I feel the same way as you do about the church, as it is the ultimate enabler to the years of abuse to countless faces, I thank you again for this eye opening look at what is happening next door, and I hope that the people that have been victimized can find some peace knowing that it is in the light, and hopefully, it will stop now and no more children will have to experience the turmoil of being mistreated there. Richard

seabhac

16 years 5 months ago

Richard

Thanks again, you have taken the time to clarify points in this and yes I should have looked at the suggestions in a more understanding way...sometimes it is good to have a little time distanced between reading a comment and replying to it. I have found you an honest and supportive commenter and value your opinion. Best wishes Seabhac

Kailashana

16 years 5 months ago

Kal, made mention of the

Kal, made mention of the fact that the Bishop who allowed all this to go on with his silence has now been removed from his position. Hopefully he will be defrocked as well. That should send a clear message. (See his poem Fear http://www.neopoet.com/node/31424) Thank you Seabhac, I would have remained ignorant without your poem and video. This is poetry at its height. Bringing awareness. ~A Don’t let your victories go to your head, or your failures go to your heart.

seabhac

16 years 5 months ago

I like the way

there is a circle of thought, a flow around of thought, especially focused here on Neo. I had read Kals excellent poem and I love the way it is like a branch from this rooted thought process. Linking through to poems is an excellent way to get a more shared view of a situation and like the sale of somthig I may have made, to see a poem spark another poem is payment indeed. Thank you for taking the time to link it and I now will make sure I take the time to comment on Fear. Seabhac

Orphani

16 years 5 months ago

Beauty truth understanding

Beauty truth understanding justice Cannot be seperated ever. One word of profound truth is worth more then all the artfully written words that contain none. Justice is what cries out here. We are all condemned who allow injustice to flurish through silence. The highest application of the poetic form is to elevate our awareness to the highest moral standard. Not the only application, but the highest. Our tolerance of these injustices is our collusion. Seaboc you have written poetry at it's finest. You make one error. That of condemning the perpetrators. We are never to condemn the man. Only the act that comes through the man. By his actions he may forfit his life, but his possible eternal punishment is Gods to judge alone. Beautiful firestorm .......o...

seabhac

16 years 5 months ago

You are so truthfully correct

It is not my place to condemn and as I reread the poem after your comment I understand much was emphasised in my anger. I have much compassion here for all the victims and have always questioned the demand of a celibate life but mandatory priestly celibacy is not a doctrine of the Church but a church rule and therefore could be changed. Having considered this route in my own youth I personally believe enforced absence of tactile love in this way is unnatural and has done much damage to both priest and nuns. Thank you for the focus here and understanding Seabhac

Orphani

16 years 5 months ago

I agree on celibacy. It is

I agree on celibacy. It is not demanded in the scriptures, and should always be a personnal choice. It's just man trying to out do God in rightousness like the pharisees, and ommiting the more important matters of the law -- like justice.

Kailashana

16 years 5 months ago

I have spent many long years

I have spent many long years on the question of sin vs sinner. Imo the wo/man is punished, he is incarcerated, put to death via firing squad, crucifixion, beheading, lethal injection. S/he is defrocked, banished from a land, disallowed from driving a car, excommunicated. Etc. Etc. So, respectfully, I ask when has the sin EVER been punished? ~A Don’t let your victories go to your head, or your failures go to your heart.

Orphani

16 years 5 months ago

You cannot punish a sin. It

You cannot punish a sin. It is defined as an act ,or thought, outside of loves boundaries, set by the being that created all things.With out law there can be no transgression or sin.That law demands we cherish that which his hands have made but abhore any deviation from loves course of perfection which is sin.When a man commits a sin, it is the sin that condemns him.Sin if you will was punished when God took on flesh to pay the price for it, so that if we execute a murderer justly, or otherwise, his fate is still not decided by us.