Tongues of nubile sweethearts

Thanks Brian, you may be right about habit, but I don't think that must always be a bad thing, I alwso write of different things in different ways, what Neo inspires in me may be different, but it is good to know your opinion & of course it moves me to want to do "better" though that is an illusive state & will look different from various views. I am not seeking compliments from you at all, I do love your input when it isn't blatantly assuming a thing that is not true, it shifts me & I am always grateful when you take that care. I hear the very legitamate criticism about your PERCEPTION that I write "the same" poem many times (it is a good thing to have brought to my attention so I thank you), I am uncertain how accurate that is without going back to read them myself, I can tell you, not ALL those particular poems are about the same situation though some are & actually despite your complaint, I suspect they have different flavours or even messages. I don't think it's unusual for a writer to be exploring a theme in several different works, I think it is probably normal actually that we often write on subjects that are critical in our life, then as the intensity fade the subject might be revisted sporadically, painters do it, songwriters certainly do (whole albums are commonly of a similar subject, heartbreak particularly) so I don't know that it is a terrible thing for a poet to be crisis focussed for a while nor to reflect at various stages into the future, especially if the situation is such that the other person or circumstance provokes them now & then. I'm not arguing for my limitations though, I get your point you want to provoke me to expand & I appreciate the consideration, but for me & anyone else I do think it should not be prohibitive to have a number of works about the same situation... after all, heartbreak is a classic subject to write on ... books, films, songs & a million other poems on this site focus on it more repetatively than I have I think... Anyway there's my view on that. As for sympathy, I feel this is another unfair accusation Brian, you are extremely hard on me, I was NOT looking for sympathy at all in this write, I doubt I was in the others either, but as I said I can't look just now, I guess it is possible, but I doubt it. If they evoke sympathy in you that's a different thing, but you can't claim you know my motives... once again. I can assure you that was not my intent at all (not that I had an intention other than to express myself well on a particular subject). I guess the upshot is that you have felt this poem NOT to be legitimate because it has a subject I have written on in a number of other poems & because, in YOUR opinion I wrote it to get sympathy (an untrue assumption), I am not claiming this to be a great poem Brian, & as always you are entitled to your opinion, but I DO think it is legitimate. I'm not sure what has coloured your views, I see that Craig has made a massive assumption also, perhaps you have discussed it? I don't think that's legitimate, that's for sure, discuss away if you will, but don't come to conclusions about the work of another poet & publicly claim it is truth without asking or finding out, that seems like condemnation, you have pronounced guilty without proof it seems. Anyway, I have tweaked this work & am more happy with it now, it is a piece of writing, I feel I shouldn't be judged for what I choose to write about as much as seems to be happening here, there is no offensive accusations or nastiness in this work, especially not to anyone who would read it, unless people are assuming the subject of the poem (which Craig seems to be doing). I feel the point here is to be critiqued for writing skill (& I admit your opinion is that there is none in this work), as I said, I am sorry you are disappointed, but I think your response is overly harsh, my opinion of your opinion. Cheers Anni~ "When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace". H.H. the Dalai Lama

Ooops, don't know how this got repeated, gone now.

Hi Arrow - Yes, I did learn from that snake/devil connection, as I said I think it didn't obviously occur to me, not having any kind of Bible education except way later in my life just to be informed (I didn't find all of it an easy read either so I may have missed bits). Anyway, I agree that as writers it is important to be aware of such things, I am now. I would like to say it doesn't actually matter really, the devil connection wasn't intentional, but if it works to add a level to the writing then I don't mind, we will all bring our history & experience to a poem in any case so each poem is a different poem for each reader in a way, depends what you connect with - but since this work seems to have provoked some personal button pushing, it may actually matter where it normally wouldn't. Normally I like those fortuitous multiple level connections, this one seems to have caused issues I regret (I do hate all this Neo-politicing sometimes, I wish we could just be writers, my own fault for being so personally exposing it seems). For me, this is a work about the down side of seduction, but it acknowledges the skill & the tragedy of a person who is good at seduction, hence the snake as smooth, slithery, clever & the connection with Eve & the apple tree in terms of the temptation (& ultimately misleading offers) etc. I don't see the poem as placing me as victim as some have seemed to, though I will have another look, but on thinking about it, in fact sometimes there IS a victim if someone has been mislead, & so "victim" has become a dirty word, when in reality it is a circumstance that occurs. Our language is full of words that become stigmatized & therefore become illegitimate. Anyway, please do write soon, I crave your poetry, it has an extremely rare brilliance & evocative quality, it always reaches right inside me & moves me in way that gives me so much more perspective... reading you is like sitting at the peak of an extremely high mountain in solitude, profound. Take care Arrow Cheers Anni~ "When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace". H.H. the Dalai Lama

Dear gentle & lovely Molly, that is such a sweet & beautiful poem, it made me weep. Thank you for your kind thoughts, but I think you should read the poem again without Brian's comments in your mind, there is no bitterness in that poem, just a sadness & a reflection of a very painful time, no hatred or anger as he suggests, I have read it over & over & I cannot see it, & there was no intention of it when I wrote that (I do feel most women would feel anger in the same circumstance & many people expected me to... even here, as you see, but I don't, I make that choice, even in the face of open cruelty on his part when I have asked him to stop displaying elements that are painful to be faced with regularly, will not, I have had to move through a brief sense of outrage after asking a few times, but I moved through it quickly without retaliation). I admit the sadness & the confusion of it lingers, I was convinced there was love in him where there was none, I have accepted this, especially with his behaviour since, but really this is just a story of something that happened. If you knew me, you would laugh at the suggestion, if you knew him (as I do), you would weep. The problem (in this instance) is, I love very easily & generously, usually that has made my life so wonderful, in this case it hurt greatly, but there were good lessons I have taken from it, & I now have a love that there is no doubt about, I guess there may have been one more big lesson before I could be with it? Don't fret, there is abundant love here, if it helps, disassociate the personal & just read the story without attachment, all is well with the world. I'm wondering do you perceive the section about the maggots & worms as being offensive & blaming? The intention is not to condemn, it is mentioned with compassion & pity I feel for this process that seems to drive him (an observation such as that in Race9togo's observation of the prostitute's degradation)... of course, this is my opinion, but anything we write or say is, & since he is most unlikely to read this it shouldn't be an issue, this is an old story I was working with, there is less personal feeling & more perspective & a kind of sorting out of a process I did find hard to understand. Any of us could easily just make up a fictional story like this, I think we have to be careful not to practice psychology here, we all do it, & often assume we know circumstances we could not possibly know, either about the person or about any element in the poem. I do think this is a valuable conversation here for that reason... & as always feel blessed to have your delicate words & presence turned my way. Of course I am in agreeance as to your point or I would not have those words below on my page... Love is the thing that actually DOES make the difference in this world, I have written that or similar about 3 times here in the last few days, it is funny this should come up here, I think it one of the ultimate irrefutable truths. I am always so pleased to hear it from another, though I knew you would hold such humble goodness in your heart from early on when I first read from you. Take care of your precious heart, it is an incredible delight to all of us & a blessing in this world I think. Thank you for your care Molly with reverence, respect & affection Cheers Anni~ "When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace". H.H. the Dalai Lama

Theo! this is a gorgeous write here, I hate that it has been plonked among such a frustrating discussion, it has less chance of being appreciated here under these circumstances... Still, I also thank you for bringing a sensible & less personal politics based comment here, I'm a bit over this feeding frenzy & this is a beautiful addition I feel honoured. Those Myths are so fecund regarding emotively enriching embodiments, each of the "Gods" mentioned comes laden (as does the snake I now realize) with such rich traits & associations, so you have set a wonderful feast to this page & transposed some of these characters into slightly unaccustomed positions, which I found even more delicious, since your choices are easy to conjure & one can really imagine the scenes with fresh & dramatic eyes... Indeed, as with my poem, the concepts of abandonment, lust, betrayal, seduction, temptation, heartbreak & more are such a constant in writing all through history, & as you point out, this could be fiction as much as history based (my downfall here it would seem, is that I dob myself in & own that it does indeed express my experience, though no-one has the right to assume they know who it was, where they were from, or how I was feeling when I wrote it, asking is different, or even proposing, but not denouncing as if it were a certainty, I do find that offensive... But I return to the thorny interjections & away from your most delightful story here). We have all done a hurt to another in our lives, often unintentionally even, the honesty I read here in owning such action & the consequences is hugely refreshing & a brilliant role model I would say for any human (or indeed God, Greek or otherwise)... Life rains tragedy daily among humanity, we are best if we can grow from it, that seems the best we can do I think, & that in itself should help us avoid both being perpetrator or victim (that word has become so very stigmatized). It strikes me that there is a wonderful irony in your write (it has a myriad of virtues despite it's admissions of "guilt", it is such a cleansing work), because I believe the very act of acknowledging & being considerate of the acts that caused heartache & pain, shows a true love in action where a denial & justification shows the opposite. I am assuming you wrote this peice, I would like to print it, because it has really affected me deeply, both because of the kindness you show by bringing it to this frey & because it is truly a great write & pertinent (in so many ways), with deeply embedded subtleties, I love that stuff... you are very good at layers, I crave such skilled writing... & thank you for the gift. The last stanza really DOES sing to me, it's tragedy a sweet refrain of loving consideration, regret & acceptance. Sometimes we just speak what we see as being, without blame or condemnation... this was what I attempted in my poem above, but I see it has been attached to a personal perspective & passed between a little group that condemn it, deciding they know what they cannot know... That breaks my heart a little, but your poem soothes it, thank you. My goddess Daphne is transformed and my head lies slowly drifting and this my friend is my constant song I wish she could be listening but I abandoned her on the mountainside to wind and sun and rain to live eternal there alone her companion just her pain.. There are other ironies here, but I think this thesis has gone on enough. I feel it has taught me a lot in a small page. Cheers, & my gratitude & admiration to you Anni~ "When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace". H.H. the Dalai Lama

Ah Craig, we agree then & when I made that statement, I believed it to be true, but you are probably right, I might have been more sensitive if I actually thought he might read it, not because I meant harm by writing it, but because I believe in being considerate. If he should read it the damage is done & all I can do is apologize & ask forgiveness & hope for understanding, knowing it may or may not be granted. My aim here is to express the responses I have to life, as we agree is a common practice in writing poetry, there was never an intention to cause hurt or to play victim, this work is not born of anger but a clarifying sense of understanding & working through a situation that WAS extremely heartbreaking for me (because I felt it was his loss in some ways too to fall back to habits or what I see as destructive tendencies... as you say, these like yours, are purely MY perspective), my fault or not (& I own that in the end I made the choice to give my heart beyond it's safety & was not coerced as such) in the end I felt mangled by the experience, it takes time to work through such effects (not that I expect or even desire you or anyone else to care about that). Part of that is to explore (in isolation because that was all I could do in the end, despite attempts to harmonize) the motivations & sad drives I perceived created those conditions. But I am a writer & I do that with the imagery that comes to me in my writing space, you & no-one else can know who it was about or how I adapted this work so that it had no direct references (on the off-chance it MAY be read by the person it was written about) & could have been about anyone, but even as a writer I do try to be considerate, but please return the favor & don't make assumptions publicly about who this may or may not have been about, it's unnecessary & unreasonable. If you are truly offended I am sorry, you could pm & find out before such accusations. Hope you have a lovely Christmas & New Year Cheers Anni~ "When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace". H.H. the Dalai Lama